生物与医学2018pnas.org
布洛芬改变人类睾丸生理并影响 testosterone 生成
Ibuprofen alters human testicular physiology including testosterone production
入门 · 约 45 分钟读完前置知识：基础内分泌学概念、睾酮与生殖生理常识
导读
这篇发表于 PNAS 的论文研究了布洛芬对男性睾丸生理功能的影响，发现服用布洛芬会改变睾丸激素（睾酮）的产生，可能对男性生殖健康产生负面影响。研究涉及布洛芬对内分泌功能的干扰作用。
HN 关注点：布洛芬是极其常用的非处方止痛药，如果它真的影响睾酮分泌和生育能力，对公众健康意义重大，因此 HN 读者高度关注并讨论其数据可信度和更广泛的背景。
HN 评论精选
这几条评论里：质疑 2 补充 2
质疑批评论文未公开原始数据，外部研究者难以复现验证
我读了论文，看了附图，还试图寻找原始数据想自己验证一下。也许数据是第三方付费实验的结果，那也请注明啊！有人（比如我）愿意付费获取。为什么不能直接说'这是原始数据、这是测量方法、这是展示方式，你自己看就明白我们是对的——哦对了数据收费'？我理解学术界不鼓励重复实验，但为什么要让外部人员难以复现或研究？难道非得走'联系作者、可能得到回复、可能拿到相同版本的数据、还得通过 Elsevier、还得有 .edu/.ac.uk 邮箱才被当回事'这套流程？太麻烦了，只会加深人们对'专家'及其观点的反感。
reallymental查看英文原文
I read the paper, I saw the plots accompanying the paper, and I tried following the rabbit hole in search of some raw data that I can get my hands on, just to see if I can. Perhaps the data is the result of the experiments that have been paid for by a third party, fine, but please mention that! People might be willing to pay for it, for example, me! What's wrong with "Here's the raw data, here's how we measured it, Here's how we've shown the data, and look you can see for yourself that we are right! oh and the data costs $$$ much." ? I understand experiment reproducibility is not incentivised in academia, but then why make it hard for an external party to reproduce it/study it? Do we have to go through the usual "Contact the academic, maybe they answer, and maybe you'll get the same (version of) data that they used in that experiment, maybe you'll have to go through Elsevier, oh and you must have .edu/.ac.uk address to be taken seriously through all those requests." What a chore. Just adds to the hate towards 'experts' and their opinions.
补充认为布洛芬可能是全球生育率下降的缺失解释之一
我一直在关注全球生育率下降问题。我之前的直觉是家具中的阻燃化学品作为内分泌干扰物所致，但总觉得不能完全解释，似乎还有别的重要因素。布洛芬导致精子数量下降可能是缺失的拼图。这也是件大事，因为过去 20 年泰诺一直被认为比布洛芬对儿童更不安全而被冷落。
mdomans查看英文原文
This isn't really huge news, technically speaking. Any anti-inflammatory drug will have negative net impact on your body function. For a while we know now that NSAIDs alter ROS levels in response to injury and in fact any normal process. NSAIDs also have negative impact on training adaptation or cell death due to overexpression of ROS. So no - taking overabundant levels of oral NSAIDs isn't going to be good for you and that's why topical NSAIDs make sense in cases of joint pain, tough they're not as convenient. Note: I remember taurine had protective effect on testicular function in men treated in 19-nor derivatives. Maybe worth checking out if it does so also for ibuprofen :)
质疑认为该发现并不意外，NSAIDs 影响生理是已知现象
严格来说这不算什么大新闻。任何抗炎药都会对身体功能产生负面影响。我们早就知道 NSAIDs 会改变损伤响应中的 ROS（活性氧）水平，实际上也影响正常生理过程。NSAIDs 还会损害训练适应和因 ROS 过表达导致的细胞死亡。所以过量口服 NSAIDs 本来就不好，这也是为什么关节疼痛时外用 NSAIDs 更合理，虽然没那么方便。注：我记得牛磺酸对使用 19-去甲衍生物治疗的男性有保护睾丸功能的作用，也许值得研究它对布洛芬是否也有同样效果。
mdomans查看英文原文
This isn't really huge news, technically speaking. Any anti-inflammatory drug will have negative net impact on your body function. For a while we know now that NSAIDs alter ROS levels in response to injury and in fact any normal process. NSAIDs also have negative impact on training adaptation or cell death due to overexpression of ROS. So no - taking overabundant levels of oral NSAIDs isn't going to be good for you and that's why topical NSAIDs make sense in cases of joint pain, tough they're not as convenient. Note: I remember taurine had protective effect on testicular function in men treated in 19-nor derivatives. Maybe worth checking out if it does so also for ibuprofen :)
补充指出该论文此前已在 HN 上讨论过
这个话题大约三周前讨论过，这里是当时的讨论帖：https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16101072
tejasmanohar查看英文原文
This was discussed ~3 weeks ago. Here's the thread-- https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=16101072
相关资源
从这篇论文所有 HN 讨论帖的全部评论里整理出来的链接。
历次讨论
- 2018Hacker News 讨论帖185 分 · 65 评
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