生物与医学2015nature.com
阿尔茨海默病中不同脑区被真菌感染
Different Brain Regions Are Infected with Fungi in Alzheimer’s Disease
进阶 · 约 45 分钟读完前置知识:免疫组化基础、PCR 基础、神经病理学常识
导读
这篇论文声称在阿尔茨海默病患者脑部的多个区域检测到真菌感染,暗示真菌感染可能与阿尔茨海默病的发病有关。研究者使用免疫组化染色和 PCR 等方法在患者脑组织中检测到多种真菌。不过 HN 上的专业读者对方法学提出了严重质疑。
HN 关注点:如果真菌感染真是阿尔茨海默病的病因,将是影响巨大的突破性发现,但评论焦点集中在实验方法是否严谨、抗体是否真的染出了真菌。
HN 评论精选
这几条评论里:质疑 3 补充 1
质疑多克隆抗体特异性不明,染色结果难以解读
我做研究用的也是同样的方法:免疫组化。这项工作用的是兔多克隆抗体,关键就在“多克隆”上——我们根本不知道这些抗体实际染的是什么。不过这种差异本身确实很有意思。
niels_olson查看英文原文
Hi, I do research using the same methods: immunohistochemistry. This was done with rabbit polyclonal antibodies. The key being polyclonal. We don't know what those antibodies are really staining. The difference, however, is intriguing.
质疑缺乏定量、对照和抗体特异性验证,方法学不合格
作为生物医学研究者,我可以肯定地说这是粗糙的科学。论文没有对多个视野的染色差异做定量分析(无法证明图片不是手工挑选的),PCR 实验没有对照(结果也只在补充材料里展示了一个),也没有证明抗体不会结合淀粉样蛋白。非同寻常的主张需要非同寻常的证据,而这个水平连让我做后续研究的动力都没有。
thanatosmin查看英文原文
As a biomedical researcher, I'm confident in calling this sloppy science. There is no quantitation of staining differences across multiple fields (to demonstrate that the images aren't hand picked), no controls with the PCR study (or even showing the results besides one in the supplement), and no demonstration that the antibodies don't bind to amyloid. Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence, and this wouldn't even motivate me to perform a follow up study.
质疑抗体可能实际识别的是淀粉样蛋白而非真菌,解释了染色结果
我敢打赌,如果他们用抗β-淀粉样蛋白做双重染色,会发现染色是重叠的。他们只说用了针对多种念珠菌等蛋白制备的抗体,甚至不知道(或不想说)这些抗体到底和什么反应。淀粉样蛋白具有通用的二级结构(任何氨基酸序列在合适条件下都能形成),而酵母也会产生淀粉样蛋白。他们很可能制备的是针对酵母淀粉样蛋白的抗体,然后染出了人类的淀粉样蛋白。他们不报告对脑组织做β-淀粉样蛋白染色很奇怪,这是显而易见该做的事。
nonbel查看英文原文
I bet if they double stain with anti-amyloid-Beta they will see the staining overlap. They just say they used "antibody raised against proteins obtained from C. glabrata, C. famata, C. albicans, P. betae and S. racemosum", so they don't even know (or want to say) what these antibodies react with... Amyloids have generic secondary structure (can be created from any amino acid sequence under the right conditions) and yeast produce amyloids. They quite possibly raised antibodies towards yeast amyloids and then stained human amyloids. It is strange they do not report staining these brains for amyloid-Beta, it is an obvious thing to do.
补充期待但谨慎:若属实意义重大,需更多数据验证
如果真菌感染真的被证实是阿尔茨海默病的病因,很难不夸大这项研究的意义——这对人类影响太大了。我家就有一对祖父母患病,所以我希望这个结论是对的。下一步应该是用更多患者验证这个假说,然后争取批准药物试验(志愿者肯定不缺)。可以想见未来会有家属争相获取抗真菌药物,但在有更多数据之前我们无法知道是否有效。希望会有突破。历史上确实不乏发现某个极其简单/明显的东西最终成为关键答案的先例。顺带一提,有趣的是那些声称念珠菌感染是多种疑难疾病根源的“民间理论”可能某种程度上是对的。
Uptrenda查看英文原文
It's hard not to exaggerate the implications of this study if fungal infection does turn out to be the cause of AD given how huge this would be for humanity. Just off the top of my head I can say this disease has effected my family (1 set of grandparents effected by this disease so far) so I'd like for the conclusion to be correct. I guess the next step would be testing the hypothesis with more people with AD to see if it holds up and then somehow getting approval to do drug trials (and I'm sure there will be no shortage of volunteers.) I can almost see a clamouring of families trying to get their hands on anti-fungal drugs in the future in the hope that it helps their loved ones but we simply won't know if this will help until there's more data. Hoping for a break through. It's certainly not without precedent that we find something extremely simple / obvious that turns out to be the key. On a side note: it's interesting to think that the crack pots you see writing about candidas infections being the cause of numerous hard-to-treat illnesses -might- actually be right (in a sense.)
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历次讨论
- 2015Hacker News 讨论帖338 分 · 155 评
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