安全与密码学2024signal.org
新品牌,同样的扫描:上传审核削弱端到端加密
New branding, same scanning: Upload moderation undermines end-to-end encryption
入门 · 约 30 分钟读完前置知识:端到端加密基础、客户端扫描/CSAM 扫描争议背景
导读
Signal 发文批评欧盟等监管机构推行的“上传内容扫描/审核”方案,指出这类做法实质上会在客户端引入内容审查机制,破坏端到端加密的核心承诺——即服务提供方无法查看用户通信内容。论文认为无论品牌如何包装,扫描上传内容都等同于在加密体系中开后门。
HN 关注点:欧盟 CSAM 扫描等立法直接威胁 E2EE 的存续,HN 读者长期关注隐私与加密政策,Signal 作为主要 E2EE 通信厂商的立场文件引发热议。
HN 评论精选
这几条评论里:支持 1 质疑 1 补充 2
补充从数据可恢复性角度反思:有人宁愿放弃 E2EE 换取可靠的数据找回机制
在丢了手机、无法恢复大量数据之后,我意识到自己其实并不想要端到端加密。我只希望有一个负责任的实体以安全的方式保管我的全部数据,并且只靠我付的钱盈利。这样即使我丢了所有设备,只要通过身份验证(哪怕收费)也能找回数据。当然,如今的商业激励体系很难做到这一点,但我仍可以憧憬这样的理想世界。
mihaic查看英文原文
After losing my phone and not having a way to recover a lot of data, I've come to the realization that I don't want end to end encryption. I just want a responsible entity to store all my data in a secure way, and they'd only make money from what I'd pay them. If I lose everything, I still want access to my data, even if a proof of identity costs me. Of course incentive systems make that very hard in today's corporate world, but I can still wish for my ideal world.
质疑质疑技术上如何界定和执行 URL 检测,指出方案在实现层面漏洞百出
我想知道如果这个提案被强制执行而用户选择退出,系统如何判断你在发送 URL?在退出扫描的情况下,URL 怎么和其他文本区分开?也许可以检测某些模式,但链接肯定不可点击。比如文本 "google.com" 算 URL 吗?我猜不算?(我知道这本来就是条愚蠢的法律,只是好奇)
eterps查看英文原文
I'm wondering if this proposal is enforced, and you opt out, how would it be known whether you're sending someone a URL? How would a URL even be distinguished from other text when you have opted out? I suppose you could detect some patterns, and it definitely wouldn't be clickable. But is the text google.com considered a URL for example? I guess it isn't? (yeah I know, it's a stupid law anyway, but just wondering)
补充称赞 Signal 主席 Meredith Whittaker 长期在隐私等议题上的坚定倡导
我非常欣赏 Meredith Whittaker。她组织过 Google 罢工,至少从 2016 年起就在做 AI 安全工作,曾为 FTC 的 Lina Khan 提供建议,如今又在为保护 E2EE 奔走。网上很多人批评她的观点,但她一直敢于发声且偶尔有实际影响力。她也做过无争议的技术工作(如参与创办 M-Lab),但最吸引我的是她的倡导。我不完全同意她的所有立场,但我喜欢科技界还有人愿意在道德议题上顶着资本潮流采取强硬甚至激进的立场。她可能是我们今天最接近 rms 的人物。
Centigonal查看英文原文
I just want to express how much I appreciate Meredith Whittaker. She helped organize the Google walkouts, She's been working on AI safety since at least 2016, She advised Lina Khan at the FTC, and new she's out here advocating for preserving E2EE. A lot of people online give her flak for her opinions, but she's been consistently very loud and occasionally influential. She's done some cool uncontroversial tech work too (like helping start M-Lab), but her advocacy is what is most interesting to me. I don't agree with all of her positions, but I like that there are still people in the tech world who are willing to take strong and sometimes radical stances on moral issues against the current of capitalism. I feel like she's the closest thing we have to an rms-type figure today.
支持指出扫描机制可能被外国势力利用,构成国家安全风险
为什么这些内容审核尝试不被视为国家安全威胁?我可以想象外国势力会如何利用这一点。
t0bia_s查看英文原文
Why those moderation attempts are not considered as national security threat? I can imagine how foreign power could take advantage of this.
历次讨论
- 2024Hacker News 讨论帖224 分 · 42 评
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