神经科学与心理学2022pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov
三十年后的二分心智理论（2007）
The “bicameral mind” 30 years on (2007)
入门 · 约 45 分钟读完前置知识：意识哲学基础、西方古代史常识
导读
这篇 2007 年的文章回顾了 Julian Jaynes 30 年前提出的“二分心智”理论：即古代人类缺乏内省式意识，将内心的声音体验为神谕，直到约公元前一千年才演化出统一意识。文章评估该理论在提出三十年后的地位与影响。
HN 关注点：HN 读者长期着迷于 Jaynes 的理论——它大胆、极具想象力，虽被主流科学视为边缘，却持续激发关于意识起源的讨论。
HN 评论精选
这几条评论里：支持 1 补充 2 亲历 1
亲历亲历推荐：无论对错，这本书极具启发性
我最近在博士论文里写到了这本书。想到苏格拉底的守护神时，我想起了 Jaynes 的理论。这本书很迷人，虽然读得久了细节记不清，但当时读得非常兴奋，它促使我跳出思维定式。我至今仍觉得它既“不可能对”又“很有道理”。我不站队，但会毫不犹豫地推荐给任何对意识及其历史感兴趣的人。
henriquemaia查看英文原文
Just recently I wrote about this book on my dissertation. I was thinking about Socrates and his daemon, and that reminded me Jaynes' theory. His is a fascinating book. I read it a long time ago, so I'm missing most details. But I remember how thrilled I was upon reading it, for how much it drove me to think outside the box. I still find it fascinating, a mixture of 'this can't be right', and, at the same time, 'makes so much sense'. As I have no dog on this race, I really don't care what is the right answer. I will still recommend Jaynes' book in a heartbeat to anyone interested in the topic of consciousness and its history.
补充引用 Dawkins：理论要么垃圾要么天才，其价值在于激进想象
Richard Dawkins 说过：“这本书要么完全是垃圾，要么是天才之作，没有中间地带——可能是前者，但我留个余地。”我认为该理论的天才之处在于它对原始意识的主观体验可能是什么样子的激进设想，即使大错特错，这类想象性假说也值得作为思想食粮。
eckmLJE查看英文原文
"It is one of those books that is either complete rubbish or a work of consummate genius; Nothing in between! Probably the former, but I'm hedging my bets." - Richard Dawkins I think the theory's genius lies in its radical approach to what primitive consciousness might have been like to experience subjectively, however wildly off the mark the theory may be. That experience is likely to have been so different from the modern mind that imaginative hypotheses like Jaynes's should be welcome food for thought.
支持理论的价值在于启发思考，而非其真实性
不知为何，Jaynes 假说是否真实对我从来不重要。它是一次极具创造力的非凡跳跃，促使我批判性地思考关于人性及其历史的种种默认假设，就像一部伟大的科幻小说。
jorgesborges查看英文原文
I don’t know why but the veracity of Jaynes’ hypothesis was never important to me. It’s such a creative and extraordinary leap. It challenged me to think critically about assumptions I might make about our humanity and its history, kinda like a great sci-fi novel.
补充用圣经文本中的认知转变佐证二分心智理论
某播客前几集里的故事与我在维基百科上读到的二分心智理论一致：旧约中期发生了某种认知转变，从服从诸神转向别处。播客讲到古以色列人屠杀其他民族，是因为那些民族的神非常真实——甚至有人半神半人，有三人仪式（一人一神附体一女），孩子被认为有两个父亲。屠杀是为了消灭那些神，亚伯拉罕的神与诸神达成协议，允许少数留下制造混乱，其余永久放逐，且留下的也终将被放逐。这解释了新约中被附身者对耶稣说“时候未到你为何来”的原因……
srcreigh查看英文原文
In the first few episodes of this podcast, [0] there's some stories / explanations which are consistent with what I've read of the Bicameral mind theory on Wikipedia. [1] The wikipedia page describes that somewhere mid-OT (old testament in the Bible) where there was some type of cognitive shift away from obedience to gods. In the podcast, the relevant story has to do with the period in the OT where ancient Israelites are going around killing people from the other nations. The explanation given in the podcast is that the gods of those people were very real. Even as far as that the people were half-god half-human; it's described 3-person sex rituals where there's one man, one woman, and a god who is possessing the man and the child is considered to have 2 fathers (the man and the god) and one mother. So when the ancient Israelites were killing those other nations, it was to exterminate those other gods. And what happened was that the God of Abraham made a deal with all those gods, that a small number of them could stay and perform helpful chaotic actions which the God of Abraham permits, while the others were banished permanently. However, this stay would be temporary, and there was a time in the future when that small remnant would too become banished. The above story is given as an explanation for why, in the NT (new testament in the Bible), some possessed people say to Jesus "Why have you come when it is not yet the time?" The spirit(s) who are possessing the man are referring to the pre-agreed upon time when the remainder of the gods will be banished from the Earth. > And, behold, they cried out, saying, What have we to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of God? art thou come hither to torment us before the time? (matthew 8:29, KJV) I'm sure there's a billion reasons why this doesn't hold up to anything resembling scientific scrutiny, like, in any way. Still kinda badass imo. [0]: https://www.ancientfaith.com/podcasts/lordofspirits [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bicameral_mentality
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