网络与分布式2021dl.acm.org
迈向必要去中心化基础设施的科学（2020）
Towards the Science of Essential Decentralised Infrastructures (2020)
进阶 · 约 35 分钟读完前置知识：P2P 网络基础、分布式系统基础、Sybil 攻击与信任模型
导读
论文试图把去中心化基础设施作为科学问题来研究，核心关切是 P2P/分布式系统中的信任、Sybil 攻击抵抗与协作激励。评论提到相关方案用 gossip 传播交易历史来估算声誉，并用 TrustChain 这种分布式链式账本以“近似检测伪造”换取性能与扩展性。
HN 关注点：去中心化系统能否真正解决 Sybil 攻击和信任问题，以及所谓新基础设施是否只是换皮区块链。
HN 评论精选
这几条评论里：质疑 1 补充 1 亲历 1
质疑认为 Sybil 抵抗才是 P2P 核心难题，论文对信任的论证偏空泛；TrustChain 以概率性检测换取性能。
这个概念有意思，他们也有一些成功案例。但关于信任的部分有些空泛。他们声称能抵抗 Sybil 攻击，而这是匿名分布式系统最大的问题——有人大量创建虚假身份来发垃圾邮件、做链接农场、滥用声誉系统。若真能做到，那将是巨大胜利，这也是 P2P 系统失败的根本原因。他们有一篇讲 P2P 网络会计机制如何抗 Sybil 的论文，那比这篇更重要。另一篇论文分析 Tribler（类似 BitTorrent）：代理会八卦交易对象并告知他人其可信度，交易历史在网络中传播，代理据此聚合出对同伴声誉的近似值，从而识别搭便车和不合作者；很多内容是为了平衡文件分享中的 seeder 和 leecher。他们的 TrustChain 更像分布式区块链：每个人都有一些链式区块且相互重叠，但没人拥有全部；目标似乎是检测大多数伪造而非全部伪造。以“只近似”为代价，系统更快、存储更少、扩展性更大。这一切都在铺垫一个问题：一组节点能否合作来增加……
Animats查看英文原文
The concept is interesting, and they have had some successes. There's some handwaving about trust. They claim resistance against Sybil attacks, which is the biggest problem in anonymous distributed systems. That's where someone creates large numbers of phony identities to spam email, create link farms, and abuse reputation systems. If they could actually do that, they'd have a huge win. It's the basic reason P2P systems fail. They have a paper on how they do that, "On the Sybil-Proofness of Accounting Mechanisms in P2P Networks"[1] That's more important than this paper. The other paper is analyzing Tribler, which is like BitTorrent. "Agents gossip about their transaction partners and inform others about their trustworthiness. Agents’ respective transaction histories are disseminated along the network. From this information agents can aggregate an approximation of their peers’ reputations such that free riders and otherwise uncooperative agents can be identified." Much of this is aimed at balancing the "seeders" and "leechers" of a file-sharing system. Their TrustChain system is a more distributed blockchain-like system. Everybody has some chained blocks, and there's overlap, but nobody has all of them. The goal seems to be that most forgery is detected, but not all of it. In exchange for being only approximate, the system goes faster, uses less storage, and scales bigger. All this is buildup to addressing the question of whether a group of nodes can cooperate to increase their reputation. The Sybil paper is a whole thesis on this, and heavy going. They're trying for a graph theory result. I'm not clear on this, but the crux of the argument seems to be that in the seeder/leecher scenario, they can create a system where the cost of faking being a good seeder is higher than the cost of being one. This seems to depend on a cost metric which is internal to the network. If the benefit to the attacker is outside the network (sales from spams, higher reputation for a product or candidate), this might not work. Good ideas there. They don't claim to have solved the general case, but they're trying. [1] https://repository.tudelft.nl/islandora/object/uuid%3A6b4011c6-1668-4a1c-a49e-f86d226063b1
亲历自称已有十年开源实践，把论文结论落到 Web2/Web3 协作平台上。
我们为此做实际方案已经十年，并把平台作为开源项目免费提供。目标基本上是做 Web 2.0（通信）和 Web 3.0（交易与智能合约）的 Wordpress。很久以前我们就得出了与这篇文章及评论相同的结论。我们将用这个平台重塑新闻业、教学、社交网络等，从基于利润动机和竞争的系统转向基于开源和协作的系统。即将推出的有 rational.app、teaching.app、Intercoin 等，更多见 Qbix 的博客和 GitHub。你也可以看我最近与 Noam Chomsky、Thomas Greco 等人关于新兴技术及其社会和经济影响的访谈。
EGreg查看英文原文
We have been working on a practical solution for this for 10 years, and are giving away the platform as open source. Basically the goal is to make a Wordpress for Web 2.0 (communication) and Web 3.0 (transactions and smart contracts). Long ago, we reached the same conclusions as the article and the comments. We are going to be using the platform to reinvent the News industry, Teaching, Social Networking and much more, by moving from systems based on profit motive and competition, to systems based on open source and collaboration. Some links of what is coming soon: https://rational.app https://teaching.app https://intercoin.org And more about the platform and solutions: https://qbix.com/blog/2021/01/15/open-source-communities/ https://github.com/Qbix https://github.com/Intercoin Here you can see my recent interviews with Noam Chomsky, Thomas greco and others about the emerging technologies and their social and economic impact: https://youtu.be/iep45pjUSNA https://youtu.be/OXTn52kL0Yo
补充直接指出这套去中心化基础设施就是区块链，并给出 IETF 的 TrustChain 草案链接。
这就是区块链。他是在呼吁做区块链。他甚至还有一份 IETF 草案规范：draft-pouwelse-trustchain-01。
jude-查看英文原文
A blockchain. He's calling for a blockchain. He even has an IETF draft spec for it: https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-pouwelse-trustchain-01.html
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从这篇论文所有 HN 讨论帖的全部评论里整理出来的链接。
历次讨论
- 2021Hacker News 讨论帖204 分 · 72 评
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